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	<title>Comments on: Future(s) of the LDS Church</title>
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	<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/</link>
	<description>Correcting the incorrigible</description>
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		<title>By: The Second Quorum of the Twelve &#124; Adventures in Mormonism</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>The Second Quorum of the Twelve &#124; Adventures in Mormonism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-410</guid>
		<description>[...] this is a follow-up to the discussion in the comments to this post some months back.] We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church . . . . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this is a follow-up to the discussion in the comments to this post some months back.] We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church . . . . [...]</p>
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		<title>By: katerskater5</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>katerskater5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-319</guid>
		<description>I think that there is actually a small missionary effort in Ceylon (now known as Sri Lanka), according to http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us/sri-lanka. I have a pen pal who lives there and knows the LDS missionaries, as well as a friend who served his mission there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that there is actually a small missionary effort in Ceylon (now known as Sri Lanka), according to <a href="http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us/sri-lanka" rel="nofollow">http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us/sri-lanka</a>. I have a pen pal who lives there and knows the LDS missionaries, as well as a friend who served his mission there.</p>
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		<title>By: bfwebster</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>bfwebster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-305</guid>
		<description>Actually, since Christ was appearing post-resurrection in both hemispheres, they may well have been in communication via the Savior; at the very least, the Nephite &#039;apostles&#039; knew about the apostles in the Old World, and the Old World apostles may well have known about the New World apostles.  

I&#039;m not seriously arguing that I expect an expansion of the Quorum of the Twelve any time soon. But say the Church doubles or even triples its current size, getting up to 40 million members worldwide. It&#039;s clear that some adjustment will have to be made. Even with eight fully-staffed Quorums of the Seventy -- 560 General Authorities and Area Seventies -- that still puts a tremendous organizational burden on just twelve men to oversee them (that&#039;s almost 50 Seventies per Apostle). The answer may well be to add additional quorums of Presidents of the Seventy, or it could be an expansion or addition to the Quorum of the Twelve.

Remember, too, that the Twelve in this dispensation were identified repeatedly in the D&amp;C as a &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&amp;last=twelve&amp;help=&amp;wo=checked&amp;search=traveling+high+council&amp;do=Search&amp;iw=dc&amp;tx=checked&amp;af=checked&amp;hw=checked&amp;bw=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;traveling high council&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, that is, they were patterned after the stake high council but were designated as general authorities in the Church. In fact, if you look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/107/36-37#36&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;D&amp;C 107:36-37&lt;/a&gt;, there seems to be some concept of equivalence of authority between the Twelve and the stake high councils. That is clearly not the case today, but it does (IMHO) leave the door open for the organization of another &quot;traveling high council&quot; either equal to or subordinate to the Twelve.  ..bruce..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, since Christ was appearing post-resurrection in both hemispheres, they may well have been in communication via the Savior; at the very least, the Nephite &#8216;apostles&#8217; knew about the apostles in the Old World, and the Old World apostles may well have known about the New World apostles.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not seriously arguing that I expect an expansion of the Quorum of the Twelve any time soon. But say the Church doubles or even triples its current size, getting up to 40 million members worldwide. It&#8217;s clear that some adjustment will have to be made. Even with eight fully-staffed Quorums of the Seventy &#8212; 560 General Authorities and Area Seventies &#8212; that still puts a tremendous organizational burden on just twelve men to oversee them (that&#8217;s almost 50 Seventies per Apostle). The answer may well be to add additional quorums of Presidents of the Seventy, or it could be an expansion or addition to the Quorum of the Twelve.</p>
<p>Remember, too, that the Twelve in this dispensation were identified repeatedly in the D&amp;C as a <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&amp;last=twelve&amp;help=&amp;wo=checked&amp;search=traveling+high+council&amp;do=Search&amp;iw=dc&amp;tx=checked&amp;af=checked&amp;hw=checked&amp;bw=1" rel="nofollow">&#8220;traveling high council&#8221;</a>, that is, they were patterned after the stake high council but were designated as general authorities in the Church. In fact, if you look at <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/107/36-37#36" rel="nofollow">D&amp;C 107:36-37</a>, there seems to be some concept of equivalence of authority between the Twelve and the stake high councils. That is clearly not the case today, but it does (IMHO) leave the door open for the organization of another &#8220;traveling high council&#8221; either equal to or subordinate to the Twelve.  ..bruce..</p>
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		<title>By: thaabit</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>thaabit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Well, I would presume the church in the new world and the church in the old weren&#039;t in communication.... The pattern seems to indicate on each instantiation of a church a quorum of twelve is formed.  That being said, would the 10 tribes also have another 12?

I will amend my previous statement to only 12 w/in *our* church organization.  Whether there can be another instantiation would be an interesting idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I would presume the church in the new world and the church in the old weren&#8217;t in communication&#8230;. The pattern seems to indicate on each instantiation of a church a quorum of twelve is formed.  That being said, would the 10 tribes also have another 12?</p>
<p>I will amend my previous statement to only 12 w/in *our* church organization.  Whether there can be another instantiation would be an interesting idea.</p>
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		<title>By: bfwebster</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>bfwebster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-302</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There’s no scriptural precedent for amending the number of the 12.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, there is. Joseph Smith referred to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/12/1#1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;twelve disciples&quot; called by Christ in the New World&lt;/a&gt; as being apostles, which would suggest that there were 24 apostles at one point -- 12 in the Old World, 12 in the New World. And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/17529/Twelve-were-called-as-Nephite-disciples.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joseph Fielding Smith apparently agreed with him&lt;/a&gt; that the Nephite disciples were, in fact, apostles.

So maybe Scott was undershooting, and what we&#039;ll end up with is the Quorum of the Twenty-Four. :-) Or perhaps, &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/morm/3/18-19#18&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;following the Book of Mormon model&lt;/a&gt;, we&#039;ll have a Second Quorum of the Twelve that&#039;s subordinate to the First Quorum of the Twelve.

Besides, we now have &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_(Latter_Day_Saints)#Third.2C_Fourth.2C_Fifth.2C_Sixth.2C_Seventh.2C_and_Eighth_Quorums_of_the_Seventy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;eight&lt;/b&gt; Quorums of the Seventy&lt;/a&gt;, a development that startled me quite a bit, until I decide that a close reading of &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/107/95-98#95&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;D&amp;C 107:95-98&lt;/a&gt; could plausibly interpret &quot;other seventy, until seven times seventy&quot; as meaning seven more quorums &lt;i&gt;in addition to&lt;/i&gt; the First Quorum of the Seventy. ..bruce..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There’s no scriptural precedent for amending the number of the 12.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, there is. Joseph Smith referred to the <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/12/1#1" rel="nofollow">&#8220;twelve disciples&#8221; called by Christ in the New World</a> as being apostles, which would suggest that there were 24 apostles at one point &#8212; 12 in the Old World, 12 in the New World. And <a href="http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/17529/Twelve-were-called-as-Nephite-disciples.html" rel="nofollow">Joseph Fielding Smith apparently agreed with him</a> that the Nephite disciples were, in fact, apostles.</p>
<p>So maybe Scott was undershooting, and what we&#8217;ll end up with is the Quorum of the Twenty-Four. <img src='http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Or perhaps, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/morm/3/18-19#18" rel="nofollow">following the Book of Mormon model</a>, we&#8217;ll have a Second Quorum of the Twelve that&#8217;s subordinate to the First Quorum of the Twelve.</p>
<p>Besides, we now have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_(Latter_Day_Saints)#Third.2C_Fourth.2C_Fifth.2C_Sixth.2C_Seventh.2C_and_Eighth_Quorums_of_the_Seventy" rel="nofollow"><b>eight</b> Quorums of the Seventy</a>, a development that startled me quite a bit, until I decide that a close reading of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/107/95-98#95" rel="nofollow">D&amp;C 107:95-98</a> could plausibly interpret &#8220;other seventy, until seven times seventy&#8221; as meaning seven more quorums <i>in addition to</i> the First Quorum of the Seventy. ..bruce..</p>
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		<title>By: thaabit</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>thaabit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I wouldn&#039;t think the 12 would grow, rather they&#039;d move some responsibility down the chain.  I see the move from Regional Representatives to Area Authorities and Area Presidencies as a move in that direction.  There&#039;s no scriptural precedent for amending the number of the 12.  However, there can be apostles who aren&#039;t members of the 12 (and there have been in our history).  Also, there can be more than 2 counselors in the First Presidency (as I&#039;m sure you&#039;re aware).  I think there&#039;s a genius in having 12 in that particular council, remembering that they have to come to a unity on decisions made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t think the 12 would grow, rather they&#8217;d move some responsibility down the chain.  I see the move from Regional Representatives to Area Authorities and Area Presidencies as a move in that direction.  There&#8217;s no scriptural precedent for amending the number of the 12.  However, there can be apostles who aren&#8217;t members of the 12 (and there have been in our history).  Also, there can be more than 2 counselors in the First Presidency (as I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware).  I think there&#8217;s a genius in having 12 in that particular council, remembering that they have to come to a unity on decisions made.</p>
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		<title>By: And now a cautionary lesson from the Evangelicals &#124; Adventures in Mormonism</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/11/futures-of-the-lds-church/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>And now a cautionary lesson from the Evangelicals &#124; Adventures in Mormonism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=357#comment-299</guid>
		<description>[...] Here&#039;s a post to discuss possible futures of the LDS Church, particularly in America.]   Share and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here&#8217;s a post to discuss possible futures of the LDS Church, particularly in America.]   Share and [...]</p>
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