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	<title>Comments on: A few curious absences in the Book of Mormon</title>
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	<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/</link>
	<description>Correcting the incorrigible</description>
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		<title>By: bfwebster</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>bfwebster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=186#comment-200</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;[Note: made a few edits to correct awkward or ambiguous wording]
&lt;/em&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;does the Book of Mormon have specific names because that’s the way the original text was, or because of Joseph Smith’s knowledge of what had already transpired? (thus naming Jesus Christ and Mary by their Western names).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That, of course, is an interesting question, though not as hard as you might think. The name in the Greek New Testament that is translated into English as &quot;Mary&quot; is actually the Greek transliteration (&quot;Marias&quot;) of the pre-Lehi Hebrew name &quot;Miriam&quot;; likewise the English name &quot;Jesus&quot; comes from the Greek name &quot;Iesous&quot;, which is the Greek transliteration of the pre-Lehi Hebrew name &quot;Yeshua&quot; (translated in the Old Testament as &quot;Joshua&quot;). And, of course, the Greek title &quot;Christos&quot; has the same meaning as the Hebrew term &quot;Messiah&quot; (and, in fact, the NRSV Bible translates most instances of &quot;Christos&quot; as &quot;the Messiah&quot;).

So, Joseph Smith may well have (for cultural reasons, not necessarily for late knowledge) translated whatever the Nephite equivalents for &quot;Miriam&quot; and &quot;Yeshua&quot; were, names that would be perfectly at home in a 6th Century BC Hebrew manuscript, as &quot;Mary&quot; and &quot;Jesus&quot;.

Now, as for &quot;Christ&quot;: the English Book of Mormon uses &quot;Messiah&quot; 32 times and the word &quot;Christ&quot; (including &quot;christs&quot; and &quot;Christ&#039;s&quot;) 387 times (&lt;a href=&quot;http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/2007/12/word-frequency-in-book-of-mormon.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s a word count list&lt;/a&gt;). Furthermore, you can find separate instances of &quot;Jesus&quot; used alone, &quot;Jesus Christ&quot; used as a phrase, and &quot;Christ&quot; used alone.

The question: is the same Nephite word translated as both &quot;Messiah&quot; and &quot;Christ&quot;, or was a separate and new word introduced for &quot;Christ&quot;? The Book of Mormon text itself argues for the latter; the first use of the word &quot;Christ&quot; in the Book of Mormon is 2 Nephi 10:3, which explicitly says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In other words, the first time that &#039;Christ&#039; is used in the Book of Mormon, it is a name (title, actually) given by an angel. This appears to be distinct from &quot;Messiah&quot;, which has been used exclusively to refer to Jesus up until this point. In fact, the name &quot;Jesus&quot; itself (probably &quot;Yeshua&quot;) doesn&#039;t appear in the Book of Mormon until 2 Nephi 25:19 -- and once again, it is introduced by an angel:

&lt;blockquote&gt;For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So the Book of Mormon text itself is consistent that the title &quot;Christ&quot; (&quot;Christos&quot; or a Hebrew transliteration) and the name &quot;Jesus&quot; (likely &quot;Jeshua&quot;) were given by an angel (i.e., by revelation) to Jacob and Nephi. However the title &quot;Christ&quot; was given, it was probably treated as an untranslated name (pretty much what we do in English; we don&#039;t go around saying &quot;Jesus the Annointed One&quot;), and possibly transliterated into the Nephite language (again, as we do in English; we don&#039;t go around saying &quot;Iesous Christos&quot; or &quot;Yeshua Messiah&quot;).

Does that answer your question?  ..bruce..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>[Note: made a few edits to correct awkward or ambiguous wording]<br />
</em></p>
<blockquote><p>does the Book of Mormon have specific names because that’s the way the original text was, or because of Joseph Smith’s knowledge of what had already transpired? (thus naming Jesus Christ and Mary by their Western names).</p></blockquote>
<p>That, of course, is an interesting question, though not as hard as you might think. The name in the Greek New Testament that is translated into English as &#8220;Mary&#8221; is actually the Greek transliteration (&#8220;Marias&#8221;) of the pre-Lehi Hebrew name &#8220;Miriam&#8221;; likewise the English name &#8220;Jesus&#8221; comes from the Greek name &#8220;Iesous&#8221;, which is the Greek transliteration of the pre-Lehi Hebrew name &#8220;Yeshua&#8221; (translated in the Old Testament as &#8220;Joshua&#8221;). And, of course, the Greek title &#8220;Christos&#8221; has the same meaning as the Hebrew term &#8220;Messiah&#8221; (and, in fact, the NRSV Bible translates most instances of &#8220;Christos&#8221; as &#8220;the Messiah&#8221;).</p>
<p>So, Joseph Smith may well have (for cultural reasons, not necessarily for late knowledge) translated whatever the Nephite equivalents for &#8220;Miriam&#8221; and &#8220;Yeshua&#8221; were, names that would be perfectly at home in a 6th Century BC Hebrew manuscript, as &#8220;Mary&#8221; and &#8220;Jesus&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now, as for &#8220;Christ&#8221;: the English Book of Mormon uses &#8220;Messiah&#8221; 32 times and the word &#8220;Christ&#8221; (including &#8220;christs&#8221; and &#8220;Christ&#8217;s&#8221;) 387 times (<a href="http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/2007/12/word-frequency-in-book-of-mormon.html" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s a word count list</a>). Furthermore, you can find separate instances of &#8220;Jesus&#8221; used alone, &#8220;Jesus Christ&#8221; used as a phrase, and &#8220;Christ&#8221; used alone.</p>
<p>The question: is the same Nephite word translated as both &#8220;Messiah&#8221; and &#8220;Christ&#8221;, or was a separate and new word introduced for &#8220;Christ&#8221;? The Book of Mormon text itself argues for the latter; the first use of the word &#8220;Christ&#8221; in the Book of Mormon is 2 Nephi 10:3, which explicitly says:</p>
<blockquote><p>Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, the first time that &#8216;Christ&#8217; is used in the Book of Mormon, it is a name (title, actually) given by an angel. This appears to be distinct from &#8220;Messiah&#8221;, which has been used exclusively to refer to Jesus up until this point. In fact, the name &#8220;Jesus&#8221; itself (probably &#8220;Yeshua&#8221;) doesn&#8217;t appear in the Book of Mormon until 2 Nephi 25:19 &#8212; and once again, it is introduced by an angel:</p>
<blockquote><p>For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.</p></blockquote>
<p>So the Book of Mormon text itself is consistent that the title &#8220;Christ&#8221; (&#8220;Christos&#8221; or a Hebrew transliteration) and the name &#8220;Jesus&#8221; (likely &#8220;Jeshua&#8221;) were given by an angel (i.e., by revelation) to Jacob and Nephi. However the title &#8220;Christ&#8221; was given, it was probably treated as an untranslated name (pretty much what we do in English; we don&#8217;t go around saying &#8220;Jesus the Annointed One&#8221;), and possibly transliterated into the Nephite language (again, as we do in English; we don&#8217;t go around saying &#8220;Iesous Christos&#8221; or &#8220;Yeshua Messiah&#8221;).</p>
<p>Does that answer your question?  ..bruce..</p>
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		<title>By: thaabit</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>thaabit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=186#comment-199</guid>
		<description>I figured that was your intent, I should have been more clear.  The interesting question to me is this: does the Book of Mormon have specific names because that&#039;s the way the original text was, or because of Joseph Smith&#039;s knowledge of what had already transpired? (thus naming Jesus Christ and Mary by their Western names).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I figured that was your intent, I should have been more clear.  The interesting question to me is this: does the Book of Mormon have specific names because that&#8217;s the way the original text was, or because of Joseph Smith&#8217;s knowledge of what had already transpired? (thus naming Jesus Christ and Mary by their Western names).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bfwebster</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>bfwebster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=186#comment-197</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not to strain too hard at that gnat, but Mary is also mentioned twice&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, so are Eve and Sarah (the wife of Abraham), but I didn&#039;t count them, either.  However, I have added a note in the posting to clarify that I&#039;m talking about women within the Book of Mormon historical record.  ..bruce..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not to strain too hard at that gnat, but Mary is also mentioned twice</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, so are Eve and Sarah (the wife of Abraham), but I didn&#8217;t count them, either.  However, I have added a note in the posting to clarify that I&#8217;m talking about women within the Book of Mormon historical record.  ..bruce..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thaabit</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>thaabit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=186#comment-198</guid>
		<description>Not to strain too hard at that gnat, but Mary is also mentioned twice (and both times prophetically as it was well before her birth):

&quot;and his mother shall be called Mary.&quot;
(Book of Mormon &#124; Mosiah 3:8)

&quot;And behold, he shall be born of Mary&quot;
(Book of Mormon &#124; Alma 7:10)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to strain too hard at that gnat, but Mary is also mentioned twice (and both times prophetically as it was well before her birth):</p>
<p>&#8220;and his mother shall be called Mary.&#8221;<br />
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 3:8)</p>
<p>&#8220;And behold, he shall be born of Mary&#8221;<br />
(Book of Mormon | Alma 7:10)</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/11/14/a-few-curious-absences-in-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/?p=186#comment-196</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t ever noticed that. You&#039;d think that naming the burial locations in the New World would be very natural for their scribes, because the Book of Mormon peoples are very conscious of significant places in their cultural past: the fact that they came out of Jerusalem, the importance of the land of their first inheritance, and the desire to go back to places where major events happened. So seemingly it would be natural for them to record and revere and make pilgrimage to the burial places of revered ancestors. At least you&#039;d think if he were taking his cue from the Bible that Joseph might have invented such a cultural practice.

Ditto for the presence of women. In the Old Testament, those courtships and marriages often mark the formation of dynasties or the development of a chosen lineage. With Joseph so interested later in life in creating dynastic connections, you&#039;d think there would be some hint of that in his early life that would have made cribbing that trait from the Old Testament a natural thing for him to do.

But since I accept Joseph&#039;s account of the plates&#039; origin, the more interesting thing for me, now that you have pointed out these two absences, is to consider what they suggest about the differences in Old and New World culture.

Thought provoking post. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t ever noticed that. You&#8217;d think that naming the burial locations in the New World would be very natural for their scribes, because the Book of Mormon peoples are very conscious of significant places in their cultural past: the fact that they came out of Jerusalem, the importance of the land of their first inheritance, and the desire to go back to places where major events happened. So seemingly it would be natural for them to record and revere and make pilgrimage to the burial places of revered ancestors. At least you&#8217;d think if he were taking his cue from the Bible that Joseph might have invented such a cultural practice.</p>
<p>Ditto for the presence of women. In the Old Testament, those courtships and marriages often mark the formation of dynasties or the development of a chosen lineage. With Joseph so interested later in life in creating dynastic connections, you&#8217;d think there would be some hint of that in his early life that would have made cribbing that trait from the Old Testament a natural thing for him to do.</p>
<p>But since I accept Joseph&#8217;s account of the plates&#8217; origin, the more interesting thing for me, now that you have pointed out these two absences, is to consider what they suggest about the differences in Old and New World culture.</p>
<p>Thought provoking post. Thanks!</p>
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